make translatable?

Hans-Christoph Steiner hans at
Fri May 1 08:08:01 UTC 2020

Daniel Shahaf:
> Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote on Thu, 30 Apr 2020 20:11 +00:00:
>> Daniel Shahaf:
>>> Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote on Thu, 30 Apr 2020 19:14 +00:00:
>>>> Daniel Shahaf:
>>>>> Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote on Wed, 29 Apr 2020 14:05 +0200:
>>>>>> Daniel Shahaf:
>>>>>>> Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote on Wed, 29 Apr 2020 10:44 +0200:  
>>>>>>>> Mattia Rizzolo:  
>>>>>>>>> I didn't check, but is the proposed framework able to properly track
>>>>>>>>> translation updates?    
>>>>>>>> Of course, that's an essential part of any localization process.  
>>>>>>> What happens between the update of an English original and the time an
>>>>>>> update translation is pulled and deployed?  Will there be, say,
>>>>>>> "English last updated on: ${DATE1} / This translation last updated on:  
>>>>>>> ${DATE2}" information on the translated page?  (I don't see anything  
>>>>>>> like that on fdroid which you linked to, but that doesn't mean much.)  
>>>>>> With websites, there isn't clearly defined workflows for this, so you
>>>>>> have to define it.  po4a and Weblate provide tools to do it.  The
>>>>>> easiest is to set po4a's --keep to 80%, which will automatically revert
>>>>>> pages to English if they fall below 80% translated.  Then just take
>>>>>> translation updates as they come from Weblate.
>>>>> My concern was to inform users of a translated page that's behind the
>>>>> English master that the content they're reading is out-of-date, and
>>>>> give them a way to access the content the translation lacks, albeit in
>>>>> English.
>>>>> I don't see how using --keep=80% would address that.  It would seem that
>>>>> if a page had been 100% translated and had fallen to 95% because of
>>>>> a recent update to the English content, there would be no indication of
>>>>> that in the translated page, so readers of the translated page wouldn't
>>>>> know there are updates they aren't seeing.  What am I missing?
>>>> When the translation level of a given page falls below the "keep"
>>>> percentage, that page is reverted to English. Try clicking on the fdroid
>>>> docs, you'll see how it works:
>>> Yes, you already said this once.  I replied that it does not address my
>>> concern.
>> I guess I don't understand it then, sorry.  Someone reading the website
>> with their browser set to a language besides English would not see an
>> out of date translation since they would see the original English.
> It will work in the way you describe here when the translation is below
> 80%, agreed; however, when the translation is >=80% and <100% (note <
> rather than <=) the user will simply see an out of date page, won't they?
> I assume we shouldn't serve the reader out-of-date content
> silently; I assume we should either serve up-to-date content (even
> if it's in English) or explicitly inform the reader that the
> content is out-of-date.
>> Are you proposing instead that the outdated translation is still
>> displayed, but with a warning that it is outdated?  That would also be
>> possible with custom code or manual management.  I haven't see that on
>> any translated static sites.
> A warning is one option, yes.  Or perhaps it's possible to show a single
> page with mixed English and translated content, similar to this:
> [[[
>     -q, --quiet           être silencieux, afficher seulement les erreurs
>     --mixed               réinitialiser HEAD et l'index
>     --soft                réinitialiser seulement HEAD
>     --hard                réinitialiser HEAD, l'index et la copie de travail
>     --merge               réinitialiser HEAD, l'index et la copie de travail
>     --keep                réinitialiser HEAD mais garder les changements locaux
>     --recurse-submodules[=<reset>]
>                           control recursive updating of submodules
>     -p, --patch           sélection interactive des sections
>     -N, --intent-to-add   enregistrer seulement le fait que les chemins effacés seront ajoutés plus tard
> ]]]
> To be clear, I'm referring to the --recurse-submodule option being
> listed with an English docstring, rather than omitted from the output
> entirely.

What I see here is a description of a problem that's as old as
computers: Documentation is always either somewhat out of date or very
time consuming to maintain.  Translations are no different.  What we're
proposing for this website is something that is achievable with the
small level of contributor time that is available.  We can definitely
deliver something that is useful without being a maintenance burden
using established software and patterns.  It will not be perfect, and it
would not be able to provide the specific feature you describe.

I know of no translation workflow software that will provide this
specific feature that you are asking for.  I know that people can do it
manually, but that's a lot more work.  po4a is a great tool, its written
in perl, and the maintainers welcome contributions, if anyone wants to
implement such a feature.


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